Last proposal of 25k was already too much IMO but I would have vote YES cause like I said at the previous proposal, mods definitely have to be paid for their work ! No big deal if it’s a bit too much… Protocol have enough treasury for this if we start farming again…
Timing was clearly bad and asking so much when some holders lost 80% of their cash and probably many of them earn way smaller wages doing far more difficult/painful jobs is IMO not very delicate… Waiting for the revenue share to be implemented, so holders get an idea of protocol revenues, how much do they get from it, and then how much should be attributed to the mods would have been much more wise imo…
BUT this time with the 0,5 wMEMO/month it’s a clear NO from me !! Come on 0,5 wMEMO using the price of 20k, are you serious. In a few month we will probably be back to backing, some whales are accumulating despite the low liquidity pool, it’s very likely the bottom price that we are looking at RN !!
When back to backing (which will increase even higher if market goes back up) 0,5wMEMO will be worth 20K + 12.5k = 32.5k/month !!! It’s worth than the previous proposition…
3 options for me:
- 20k MIM/month or less: HAPPY YES from me
2)25k MIM : I will vote yes cause you guys need to be paid so gonna let it go even if it’s too much
3)More than the above and especially with 0.5wMEMO : BIG NO
Sorry guys, big supported of you being compensated but not like this…
ps: Also, like some people are saying, all this new stuff that you guys are supposed to do are not there yet… I think it would be smart to start with a way more reasonable salary claim that many will accept, and when this changes are in place make another vote to raise your wage accordingly…
So, that was some of our concern with using wMEMO as part of the pay and why we went with MIM only at first.
If we were to keep some wMEMO, what do you think would be justified ?
Don’t know who would prefer you to get wMEMO instead of MIM ?? But if it has be like this I think it would be better that your salary is a fix dollar amount and you get paid the equivalent in wMEMO…
But I definitely think it we be way more simple to pay you in MIM, you guys can then decide if you want to buy wMEMO or not…
Another option I have in mind, don’t know if it’s a good one, but when revenue share are implemented and we know what % of the protocol revenue goes to holders, a % of it should go to the mods before being distributed to all holders… So if the protocol make good money you guys get paid more (and also get more as/if holders) and if the protocol didn’t perform well then everyone get less… Seems more fair to me…
Thanks, make sense.
Thr rev share idea is tricky and we would need a bigger discussion, but could be an option.
Another negative from the community if we get paid in wMEMO is we can get a bigger portion of the rev share, which increase even more the amount of money we could make
@Blablub & @Vayu, FYI, I will clear out the treasury discussion to make it more on topic.
Thanks for replying. Has anyone looked at the tax implications to the DAO of these payments? In my jurisdiction the payer would need to make a submission to the IRS, or relevant tax authorities, so that they can double check that the payee is declaring this income appropriately. This would not be an investment return but an income payment. Hence there would be a necessity for the recipients to be doxxed, at the very least, not just to the DAO, the payer, but to the relevant tax authorities.
Additionally, engaging the correct people first is paramount to a successful business. Hence a recruitment process in which skillsets are declared and analysed. If the position is to remain voluntary then this is not necessary, but in a professional paid environment it is essential. The decision has to be made now correctly and not in the future. Otherwise you run into the same issues which almost torpeded this DAO a few short months ago.
And I am sorry the people to me are random. Apart from their meme names I have no idea who they are!
Tax implications have been taken into consideration and will be dealt with under the appropriate laws.
Again, I agree in principle. However, theses ideas have been brought up before and never went anywhere because there is no body in charge to make sure they happen. This proposal aims to change that by having some kind of mid level management to move things forward.
The reason why this one is going forward and others before did not, is because it is supported from the top.
I suggest you read @matjai’s response and mine on this post for a clearer explaination of the situation.
I will again, say that I agree with you and it would have been my prefered solution, it is just not realistic in the current situation in my opinion.
Since the mods of Wonderland are also on Sifu’s new project, I support the compensation.
I think after all that happened, Wonderland should pay the mods to make them financially free and do a better job for my $Sifu bags.
I voted yes!
I see what you are saying here. This is why I think perhaps quarterly review of KPIs and adjustment earnings (reducing or increasing depending on market conditions) seems reasonable. As a whole we look at the work completed, key community milestones and then consider is the WMEMO at backing, what is that price now in the market and does it reflect the work completed. At which point we can propose and adjustment. Using WMEMO means that the mods are at the mercy of the markets in the same way as average investors, which in turn incentivizes them to act everyone interest as it is in line with their self interest.
Just given a flat MIM value doesn’t reflect the importance of performance of the core protocol. It could be going down the pan and they would still get paid a good deal while everyone else is losing sleep. This may only serve to drive a wedge between the mods and the community.
Also on a side note I am still very concerned about the need to 8 full time mods. There are not enough media channels or work for folks to be doing at that level. I’d say 5 (1 snr and 4 spread out over timezones) max and then in 6 months we revisit and see if the mods can pitch to the community the need for extending this.
I understand you way of thinking but mods are not devs/TM, their are not responsable of the protocol success. Doesn’t mean they don’t need to get paid, they spend a lot of time taking care of discord and helping people. If they start doing more (social media/communication with team) they deserve being paid accordingly IMO… Whatever if the protocol is doing well, but it needs to be reasonable. And like others said, they should first make a vote between YES or NO (or with a small amount/month). The vote would probably be yes (I hope)
As I proposed earlier, paying them a % of the protocol revenue just as like we will get a % of it with the revenue share is a good incentive for them to do their best… But IMO they deserve a minimum for being there all the time for the community…
I personally don’t think the number of mod getting paid is important, if the amount of MIM/month was more reasonable, it will be less money for them. I would let them decide between them who needs to get paid or not and how much, it really doesn’t matter to me…
I debated between writing a comprehensive post recapping many of my points from the General Discussion that I still believe to be incredibly important for the DAO.
Instead, rather than entering into another deep discussion, I’ll approach this from another angle.
I would be open to the idea of this mod team getting the 25k/month and seeing how it goes on the condition that there is a contract expiration date set 3 months from the date the DAO vote concludes.
This should work in the interest of both parties:
- The mod team gets the compensation they feel is fair today.
- The DAO is not committing to paying this same group of 8 in perpetuity, the contract end-date is set in stone.
- The process to renew or extend the contract should be straightforward - but will still require another DAO vote.
- The mod team is incentivized to deliver on their commitments and show progression, proving that the value they want to bring is aligned with what the DAO needs.
- The DAO does not need to campaign or mobilize in order to force a vote on Mod team performance. It’s automatic based on the contract end-date.
- The possibility for the community to provide formal feedback for adjustments to the structure, team, or activities related to the mod team can happen during the process of contract renewal.
@NalX, I would love to hear whether your team would be comfortable with having it set this way.
Yep extra Mim to ensure the originally proposed value of payment is met until Memo wakes up and meets backing.
I think this is an adequate compromise for many of those who may feel unhappy about this proposal. We need the solid and structured communication right now, we need this structure in the mod team to ensure we have a supported team at the discord to help our community around the clock.
It’s difficult for some in the community to accept the value in this proposal, I think a continuous revisit to this arrangement is both a solid middle ground as well as a responsible way to handle things. It would be great to have a predetermined evaluation period between cycles of mod structures.
I think your suggestion does a great job at maintaining our progress toward getting this done and by suggesting that it’s just roll-over each time and simply needs another vote, allows this process to not get too chaotic with each evaluation period.
I appreciate your thoroughness as well as your desire to make sure everything we do in the community is efficient and effective. I know your questioning may appear as pushback or negativity, but I recognize that you truly want what’s best for the community and your effort to achieve that is admirable. I’m grateful to your willingness to suggest this kind of compromise to keep us moving in the right direction.
I get what you are saying. Perhaps market performance may not be the best way, as you’ve said they’re not devs. But then also consider it like this: why should devs be the only person(s) responsible for a project’s success? Customer services, marketing, community engagement (i.e. mods) fulfill a vital role that directly impacts the success of a project just as well as any dev can, I think of mods like brand ambassadors.
I like the idea of an allocated budget, rather than the number of mods being important. Though I would argue the initial amounts proposed were likely arrived at based on the number of mods put forward, so at this stage it may not be possible to separate these.
I will echo what a few folks have said before, accountability and proof of value should be paramount in these kind of decisions. Firstly, I’d like to us to see a plan of the role responsibilities and how the mods plan to measure the success of these. A bit like a job interview, the mods team should share what their role function/structure is to be. Then this coupled with a fixed term release of funds, followed by renewal and extension/reduction should allow the DAO to make sure the funds are being put to good use and are as expected.
All for taking care of the people who help the community stay connected and informed. Essential for this project to establish some consistency along its redemption curve.
Only active Mods should be compensated IMO, and this will incentives them to do even better, and also inspire others to work hard to get to a payment level.
Tentative yes if checks and balances are implemented. I don’t much care who the moderators are, as long as there is a check on their power. A series of channels dedicated to Mod Accountability are needed: An open (to forum members) channel where bans are listed with a write up with mod reasoning for each one. A strike system. An appeal channel. A grievance channel for the mods (Not just yellow mods, all mods with muting and banning power) where people can write up their issues with a particular mod that all forum members can see. A monthly report with number of bans, overturned bans. A Code of Conduct for the Mods should be written up as well. If this is going to be a Job, we can’t have mods having Not safe for work discussions in general chat and other things like that. Also I’d like to see an official designation for Sifu. He’s helping out and is the co-founder of the project. He probably doesn’t need to be paid but he needs to have an official title and we need to officially address his status in the project. He was unfairly terminated from his position in my opinion, and his presence and knowledge about the project is invaluable.
@isthatlowfat Thanks for bringing this forward and I’ll do my best to clarify these points in the WIP, but until then, here we go.
In principle I agree, but I’d argue a fully fleshed out process would require it’s own proposal and a lot more discussions. For example, @MattMacGyver’s comment make it sounds simple and in theory it could be, but what happens if the DAO says no thanks ? What if it’s only half the team the DAO wants out ? Etc, etc. Anyway, I’m sure you understand why this would required a lot more conversation. I also agree that the feedback is appreciate and will be required when things get moving.
Just to clarify, although I’m sure you realize this, this proposal is not permanent. In fact, I would say it is definitely temporary. As we get more organized, things will evolve, needs will change and the DAO will vote in consequence.
However, until such process can be put in place, we believe it would be the Senior Moderator’s (@AliceInWonderland) responsibility to address these concerns without the need for the DAO to intervene all the time. We should not have to wait the end of the “contract” or a vote if changes are required. We believe a way to provide formal feedback/complaint to the Senior Mod should be enough for to cover these points for now. The Senior Moderator should be able to replace a moderator or provide feedback/guidance directly to the mod when needed. Preferably, if a mods receives too many founded complaints, the Senior Moderator would have the authority to take action or replace them with the “next mod in line”. This would eliminate the need for multiple vote and allow actions to be taken faster without the need to campaign. Obviously, periodic reporting on these things should be put in place to allow transparency and make sure Alice is not on a “Power Trip”. However, should the DAO feel the need to intervene, that will be able to.
@PinkMushroomKing Don’t you think that would make it so the salary would be way to high ? Especially if the price action stays low for a while we could be stacking those wMEMO and once the price goes high or salary could essentially triple based on past allocation, but we still got extra MIM.
@BloodyStools 100% agree, we are already discussing how to implement these so thanks for the ideas!
I keep my position with this…
wonderland have bigger issues right now to deal with!
Let’s first find a treasury manager and then let him/her allocate the necessary money to the mods team.
Second, I still don’t understand why mods being paid will improve their communication with the core team…money talks???
I do agree that you guys should be paid for your job but this is not the right time to talk about it…
Well, I respect that.
Us getting paid is not what gives us the line of communication. We are putting it in the proposal so the team has to commit on it as voted by the DAO. Dani wants more structure, that line of communication is a first step towards that.
As an FYI, since it wasn’t broadly stated, Dani is talking with SkyHopper to potential help out with the treasury. You can look up their recent interact in Discord. SkyHopper had an RFC posted a while back in case you want more info: