Start the rebase after first 72 hours
Could you just not receive the first rebase if you stake under 60 min until the next rebase?
I like where the idea is to fight the whales, but i"m definitely not a fan of holding money hostage for 72 hours, if i want to pull out my money out for whatever reason i shouldn’t have to wait for my funds.
This seems like a hot topic and has been posted 3 times already, but there is no reason to lock anything. People who try to stake and unstake for profit are usually rekt by slippage fees and price action. Which goes into the treasury making us more money. You would have to be the first one in and out to gain any sort of money.
They are draining nothing. This is such a nonissue. Can people please top proposing solutions for a problem that is not real.
I think freezing would seem a bit overreaching because I would not have full control over my money.
New investors would be weary of a project that could go under and they’d still have to wait days to get their money back.
I suggested dynamic rebasing in my general discussion - Stop In-And-Out Stakers Using Dynamic Rebasing
Nothing good comes out of trying to control people’s behavior by force, in the long run we will create a healthy trend in behavior, all factors are important in the organic growth of the project, what we really need is to be more patient, remember that this project is only 3 months old.
Im pretty torn on if this is even a problem. After having this conversation in discord with multiple people the real question boils down to:
- where are they taking the funds after they unstake?
- are they actually selling $TIME after a rebase?
- where are they trading the assets and what are they paying in liquidity provider fees?
Basically answer this:
are they actually profiting after the trade?
TraderJoe: .2999% LP fee x 2 = 0.6%.
Example rebase: 0.6129%
Example amount: 20,000,000
20000000 * .0129% = 2,580 @ 0 slippage
2,580 x 3 times daily = 7,740 @ 0 slippage
So if they are making money on 20 million its insane to me that they chase that type of return.
Thank you for your math.
Highly doubt this is an actual issue, however, it could be worth it if you have rebases happening above the trading fees. Even at a measly 0.0387% profit that @steven87vt showed.
With the explosion of rebase protocols, we did some math to see if we could automate capturing all rebases across multiple protocols. This could potentially turn the usual 3 rebases per day into
3 * P where
P is the number of protocols. With 5 protocols you could get 15 rebases a day. Even at the measly 0.0387% max gain per rebase @steven87vt has shown, compounded 15 times a day makes for a phenomenal return:
Net 7,740 per rebase on 20M = 0.0387% per rebase (per Steven’s best case example)
3 rebases per day * 5 protocols = 15 rebases per day
20M * 1.000387^15 - 20M = $116k profit 1 day
20M * 1.000387^(15 * 30) - 20M = $3.8M profit 1mo
20M * 1.000387^(15 * 90)- 20M = $13.7M profit 3mo
20M * 1.000387^(15 * 365)- 20M = $146M profit 1yr
Considering only Wonderland, and not moving between multiple protocols, it is still >50% annual return:
20M * 1.000387^(3 * 365) - 20M = $10.6M profit 1yr
Folks could be very incentivized to do this as you could also limit your exposure to the underlying asset value changes. You could swap into other (stable) tokens except for the couple minutes you need to be staked for the rebase. This would add more fees, however, the limit on risk may be a motivator.
Again, due slippage, constant APY fluctuations, swap fees, complication of the strategy, and risks associated with that kind of movement, I don’t believe this is currently an issue or will be.
A 72 hour lock would not achieve anything except for stifle new investment
The value extracted by rebase sniping is trivial
Making rebases more frequent would be a better idea.
What you could do instead is to introduce a smart check in service that would evaluate the bundle you want to stake. Small amount no freezing as there is no need, bigger amounts would have let’s say 72 hrs and whales much longer and a cool off period. Or let’s introduce a rebase that does not kick in unless you actually had the amount in for the full rebase term
Just a personal preference. I do not like the idea of locking up my time/memo/wmemo for any amount of time. The idea of it being “easily accessible” sells it for me.
This right here is gold thank you for the break down
All the more need for a tiered system for the rebasing.
Freezing Rebases for 72h is not gonna solve the problem, it only delays the inevitable whale dumping by 72h.
And when they dump after 72h, their profits will have compound even more.
AFAIK whales providing liquidity, volume and transaction fees in this ecosystem is a huge net positive. Let the whales play and the Hodlers Hodle. This is Defi.
Another idea apart from everything that has been suggested so far, can be an unstake fee equal to the value of a rebase. This way, if you stake -1 min, and unstake +1 min, you lose money and it won’t be a profitable behavior. They can still exploit i guess (if thats even a problem) but they will have to keep it at least 8 hours.
I’m not an expert in maths or in finance, but if there is an exploitable behavior that harms the little froggies/the project, i expect something to be done about it.
completely agree this is mentioned also on another discussion. also exposes whales to minor risk like your average holder and should disrupt the schedule meaning they don’t all pump and dump together.
Very informed comment, with good data. Thank you. I think it this posibility for arbitrage is inhibited not only by barrier to entry but also the fear of coming short due to fluctuations in price.