Progressive rewards to avoid rebase trading

[Mantos]

I’ve got an idea to avoid people to stake right before rebase and unstake after.
Insthead of introducing a locking period, that would eventually reduce freedom and therefore make people unhappy,
I was thinking about a progressive reward system that is based on the time in which you have kept your funds staked.

Right now, every epoque is 8 hours, that means that every 8 hours you receive the full amount of reward,
wheter you kept your funds staked the whole time, or you just staked before rebase

That is the way I would do it:

If you have kept the MEMO staked for the entire epoque, then you receive the full amount of reward (100%)
If you have kept the MEMO staked for 6h/7h 59mins, then you receive 80% of the tot amount of reward
If you have kept the MEMO staked for 4h/5h 59mins, then you receive 60% of the tot amount of reward
If you have kept the MEMO staked for 2h/3h 59mins, then you receive 40% of the tot amount of reward
If you have kept the MEMO staked for 1h/2h 59mins, then you receive 20% of the tot amount of reward
If you have kept the MEMO staked for less tham 1 hour, you do not receive any reward.

I think that this method would be fairly easy to implement
It’s a better option rather than a locking system
And would prevent rebase trading ➝ benefit the project.

If you want to thank me for the idea, here is my avalanche c chain wallet (sorry im poor)
0x6D4835932afA34782eD09bD00e518aD32dAEf7d0

Thanks!

[grandezana]

This seems a great idea to me! Actually, when I staked MEMO for the first time, I was surprised that I could get the full rebase even if I had staked only a couple hours before it.

[Dean]

First of all i find it lame that you want people to donate money to you and post your wallet… Second, how would that work with minting ? I think thats unfair for people who do mints and claim 10 min before. Also, the people who sell and do remints are beneficial for the protocol, so its gonna be bad to stop them doing constant remints. If that would not apply to minters and only for ones who buy the tokens and stake them directly , then i think it could work.

[avasa]

Very interesting solution to explore. Some really great ideas already coming from the community.

[tail_risk]

literally thought of the same idea an hour ago. good stuff.

[kr4chinin]

Seems to be an interesting idea, way more patient then the locking period!

[Mantos]

I guess the project would benefit more by not having rebase traders and compromising few minting operators.
Have a look at
https://dexscreener.com/avalanche/0x113f413371fc4cc4c9d6416cf1de9dfd7bf747df
you will be surprised on how much people buy before and sell right after rebase.

[Firebee]

I really don’t get the anger against people who rebase hop.
They are benefiting the entire system, even tho in a different way than you’d like (spoiler: throu the big amount of fees they are paying).

Anyway, since it’s talked about a lot in these first threads, have you had a look at charts around rebases?
Do you really see that big volatility spikes in price every 8 hours? Cause honestly I don’t. Sure they are generally red candles, but not in a concerning way. and don’t forget it’s generally people taking their partial profits away causing them to be red…some people see every rebase as “free money” and proceeds to lock what they see as profits. it’s natural.

Do they understand what’s really going on while doing so? no, or they wouldn’t be diluting their own % of market share, but we are not all made the same.

Here’s an example of the market action at this very last rebase that just happened. no whale movements at all, just people taking “profits”.

I think it’s a non event we are talking about. Probably happened 2 or 3 times max, and once whales who tried it realized rebase hopping is not a risk free activity and they lost some money more probably than not due to slippage, they stopped doing so.

After this long introduction on why I don’t think rebase hopping is a problem at all but rather a free money for all of us holders, I guess progressive rewards would only make logical sense and it’s the way I honestly thought the sistem worked in the first days, when I haven’t studied TIME well yet.

I don’t have anything against or to support why it’s a needed change, but I want to point out that if we were to implement it, Minters should be further incentivized, because they would “lose” their first rebase after the minting process.

[Mantos]

Why wouldn’t rebase trading be a profitable strategy? I think that receiving 1.8%/d without being exposed to TIME volatility is great, but I don’t think it’s the way the platform is supposed to function

[Firebee]

you start from MIM or whatever stable coin, go on Traderjoe and buy Time. You are a whale, or not:

0.5 to 1% slippage there,plus fees. (don’t care about fees if you’re a whale but the slippage is %, and the more money you play with the biggest the spread)

go on wonderland, stake, fees (don’t care if you’re a whale)

get your rebase, unstake, fees (don’t care if you’re a whale)

you’re exposed to time for at least a good 2/3 minutes and that’s if you’re lightning fast because at the very least transactions have to go through.
Generally speaking the very candle after a rebase is a red candle cause people like to take their profits (look at the image right above your comment) so that’s non negligible and usually against you

go back on traderjoe, swap back to MIM or whatever stable coin, 0.5% to 1% slippage, and fees.

Even as a whale, you are risking your whole capital for a brief amount of time, during historically the asset goes down due to sell pressure. Even without that, assuming the price was stable:
You have 1 to 2% loss due to slippage in order to get your “free” 0.6%.

Do it 3 times and you’re exposing a big capital to risk every day 3 times a day, and without considering price movements you paid 3 to 6% in fees to claim your daily 1.8%.

Also, even if someone was to do this, all of the fees I’m talking about would be going to TIME treasury…so, to us basically. it’s surely not the way the platform is supposed to be used (and just kinda proved it’s not even profitable), but also it would help us in the process

[acv_BUY_A_HW_WALLET]

REBASE TRADING IS A NON-ISSUE. There is no reason to waste development resources, time and money fixing a problem that does not exist. Its been shown again and again that hoppers make minimal gains if they dont lose. Hopper are not effecting you negatively. This really is not a fruitful path to explore.

[guguzx]

我曾经计算过这样的套利模型，但实际上很难实现，因为当资金量较大时，滑点成为不稳定因素，会导致成本增加，交易成本约为0.5%，即使得套利空间0.1X% 这种滑点很容易导致最终套利亏损

所以可以切入5%的rebase项目，需要在第二次rebase发生后UNSTAKE，避免套利

[Firebee]

Our economic arbitrage model, but actually the actual cost, the amount of money to be compared, the arbitrage factor, the increase in the number of arbitrages, the increase in the number of trades, the immediate use space 0.1X%. This kind of slip point is easy to guide

The reason is that the 5% arbitrage item, the demand is in demand, the second rebase is developed, UNSTAKE, and the arbitrage.

From google translate

Plus something about your mom I didn’t include because of forum’s guidelines

[Chronos]

You didn’t kinda prove it’s unprofitable. You definitively proved it’s unprofitable. People who have these concerns don’t understand how Wonderland generates value. Wonderland owns its own liquidity. You’re not going to day trade your way to profitability.

[pedrurr]

I think a better aproach would be rewarding stakers that have staked for long periods like RomeDAO is doing, if you stake X amount of TIME until X day for a X period of time you will recieve an NFT with some utility in the DAO. I think it’s very good for the stakers to get rewards in the community like more voting power or more 5-day ROI % that is decided by the NFT that they get.

It gives more reason to stake without taking away the possibility of rebase-trading from some people (so people can mint and claim before the rebases in the 5-day vesting period)

(, )

[Mantos]

Well thank you so much for the explenation!
It’s really useful to have the opportunity to discuss and clarify such mechanisms. Also, I had forgotten about slippage.
Thanks again!

[McDad]

Good Idea, never thought of it like this, still allows some flexibility with your funds, i.e. not locked. But still like airdrop or extra incentive for hodlers

[hippocr1t]

Not a big fan of your first sentence being a personal attack on OP. I’d appreciate your comment focusing on DAO business. If the donation request is a problem, take it to a mod privately.

I’d like to understand how selling for a remint only supports the protocol. The minting causes inflation while collecting protocol owned liquidity. Depending on how much of that is going on, it seems it could either be a wash or a net negative. If my thinking is correct, rebase hopping to sell and remint doesn’t sound like a guaranteed net positive.

[Catalyst]

Solid idea. That would hurt (9,9) people though, also how do you know what’s staked and what’s not? Maybe I’m moving my Memo from one account to another or to a Hardware Wallet. How can you know that I’m staked or not and for how long? Needs a little bit of thinking, probably we can start by increasing the rebases from 8h to 4h or even 2h? Despite the solution, this is a real problem that needs to be solved.

[hippocr1t]

Agree here. If something is to be done, it should probably be some incentive that doesn’t affect staking/minting directly and whose time period is longer than several rebases.