thank you I am posting there now (already a member on WAGMI)
2 Likes
Thank you for your input, we were originally going to list it by roles but then it wouldn’t be transparent and the DAO will be questioning who what when where why again because in total there will be over 30 mods in all accounted roles currently.
If that happens then the next nomination from the another role will be assign to take the resigned position. There will not be another vote for this.
We did not come up with these figures ourselves, it was approved by higher up before we posted the proposal and decisions will have to go through higher up, not by us.
The payroll wallet will be public for everyone to see the transactions.
Thanks for breaking this down.
Mods are volunteers and do not deserve any compensation in my personal eye. They already have added benefits that come with the role and if they don’t want to do it for free don’t do it at all.
This money should go to token holders who have been through way more with the Sifu scandal draining there investments by upto 90%
1 Like
We need a motivated team moving forward and what has been lacking is clarity and communication, less guessing and more information with direction is needed to save this project. If this means paying individuals that are qualified to do so I don’t have a problem with this proposal at all.
There are some great minds in this project who probably shouldn’t be worrying about the social distractions, instead keep building and innovating. Hire people to handle this properly and do a good job of it.
Wonderland needs a no bullshit ‘face’ to deliver both technical updates, direction of the project and bury this sense of uncertainty which is lurking amongst the investors.
Mods are cool and they probably deserve this proposal, I worry a little because it does look to be more about enforcing things as opposed to offering a regular flow of information for both the layman and the tech savvy as well. Get someone in the handle the information flow and get it right with a no bullshit approach. After all Crypto should bring clarity not a smoke screen of uncertainty.
Daniele is great but he shouldn’t be trying to fight against the tide of twitter and such as an example, get someone in who understands the tech and can translate that into something palatable by all interested but can work the public angle without glorifying or selling dreams, just the real deal eloquently presented, regularly.
Anyway that is just my 2cents. Whatever happens, so be it. Like anything in life a small % stand to gain while the masses will lose - at least this is what history has taught us.
Twitter: @BTCBoytjie - hit me up if you want. Peace
2 Likes
Totally agree - just need to be able to demonstrate the value (effort of time spent fixing, troubleshooting, configuring) and weigh it against the time saved (automated messages, automated workflows, etc.). If it makes sense, great! If it doesn’t, then we need to rethink how we’re spending our time.
This was a hypothetical I wrote up to get a point across :). I understand that you may feel it doesn’t accurately reflect the situation pertaining to your discord bots, but the spirit of the analogy remains the same.
Not to be pedantic, but from an ITIL standpoint, maintenance work is typically defined as something routine and planned. Incidents are break fix situations and abnormal behavior. We generally wouldn’t lump in bots malfunctioning into maintenance work.
From my experience, bots can be amazing, but if you’re making a case for spending DAO money on them, the value should definitely be demonstrable. The simple method to calculate this is (manual effort required for this action) * (frequency of the action) = X. If there’s 0 human intervention following the bot activities, your savings are equal to X time, which translates to DAO $ If there’s some human intervention (like having to call the jabberwocky with !airdrop), just run (manual effort required for this action with automation) * (frequency of the action) = Y. Take X-Y and you have your immediate gains.
Forecast your expected action frequency over the next few months, adjust your formulas accordingly, and you have enough data to showcase the reason to invest the time into the bot.
I summed it up in one word, just because not everything needs to be explained in detail for real, I gave you enough reasons why that uses time, but one specific example: some days ago „creator of bot overlooked bug and two of us spend over three hours to try to fix it together with the dev“ isn‘t normal maintenance, still included in the word when we describe what we do. We found out the is something wrong, tried to troubleshoot, realized it’s not a normal error, contacted the dev, he came over, realized that there was a bug in his version after troubleshooting with us.
If you think that a server such as this can stay without scammer and raid attacks, well that‘s a very clear no. That the bot sometimes bans people that aren‘t scammers and need to be helped by being manually whitelisted after they contact us is also normal - still a lot less work than letting all scammers freely in and instead banning thousands and thousands of them by hand. I don‘t even need to run a calculation for that, nor will I present one, because it would cost me more time to collect the numbers needed for even just a day of bot bans stats than it needs to write this message and appeal to your common sense. 
There are a lot of reasons, why we have to troubleshoot or interfere manually and it‘s just one of the things we do - that‘s why it‘s on the list of tasks.
These tasks, take away time - I don‘t however count how much time we spend on that, we just do it; so I can‘t give you more than an estimate. That is one example, out of many tasks that you can‘t put in „x hours per day spend on“, as it‘s not a thing that happens all the time.
And the same goes for the commands - you either believe that or not, if it takes an hour to set it up - if it would take ten hours, it would still help every moderator on the server to just type in the command, rather than type a message with questions being asked hundreds of times per day sometimes.
So yes, all bots we have fulfill a purpose that saves us time. And no, we do not spend hours and hours on normal „routine“ tasks with them, that would be very silly indeed. 
Hope this helps clearing the bot tasks question
2 Likes
Time and Wmemo price is tanking and you guys are concerned about your payment? We didn’t hired you. You offered voluntarily. Are you Wmemo, Time holders? Give us one reason why should we do this and what use would be for us?After all price of Wmemo and Time is tanking don’t you guys think that actually this is the worst possible moment?
Exactly now wmemo and Time price tanking dramatically losing 20% in one day uh seriously and all you guys found is asking for money? That doesn’t reflect any community commitment at all you show us the opposite.
In my opinion the things would get better by getting rid of them and useless Discord chanel that more upsetting people than help them. In fact I don’t really see no contribution to the project from them. I’m wrong or I’m the only one who feels that way?
1 Like
This really isn’t bad at all, and this will help with communication issues across the board!
2 Likes
Ponzi in progress signs of the airplane taking off to Vanuatu now they’re asking to be paid. I’m really wondering what for?Since February Wmemo and Time loss 50%of its value and is down like 250% from initial investment value. From 8000 to 130. So tell me what contribution Mods had?
Ser, I think you are getting confused. The second part of this proposal that you seem to ignore is to let us do more so we can help back on track.
So far, we have been extremely limited in how much we are allowed to do to help in an official capacity (basically 0). This proposal is asking to let us help in an more official capacity. By getting paid, we are accountable to the DAO. We will need to provide results and better organize the community because if we don’t, we can be voted out.
Right now, we are all volunteer, we are all down like every other member of this community, but we still want to help because we believe in the project. Paying moderators was a subject that was brought up after the initial moderation team that was hired left. It was delayed due to everything that happened.
Now that RQ is over and we want to focus on the future, Dani asked to write a proposal and post it. So we did. The value we provided so far has been mainly in the discord, because we are Discord moderators. You’ve mentioned that you don’t have access multiple time so it make sense that you would not see any value that we may or may not have provided. You can also look at the support section to see some of the people we have helped. Some of those are included in the proposal also, but you don’t have to believe our word for it.
This proposal is about moving forward and the additional value we would like to contribute to the protocol. If you don’t think it’s a good idea, fine. No need to comment the same thing over and over to everyone.
As a side note, I’ll extend the invitation once again, but if you’d like us to help you look into getting you in the Discord, please make a post with your Discord ID in the support section.
Thanks.
3 Likes
The current forum structure is worse than a popular subreddit thread.
It’s impossible not to get lost or be seen by anybody in this thread with just a message like this. It’s an uncared-for pile. Manual labor by a handful of individuals is very limited in terms of scanning all the comments in every thread - I mean the discussions here, not general chat modding in various platforms, since I see this platform as basically the pre-Snapshot/pre-Voting step for basically anything now.
I’d say the moderator compensation idea is great and I’m behind it 100%, though I find the compensation structure too simple and straightforward a payment for a bunch of not-very-straightforward jobs.
I appreciate the care that’s been put in the writing of job descriptions and task lists for each mod, yet I don’t see a fraction of this care taken in the proposed structure of the compensation payment! The compensation structure right now sounds like “just send some MIMs and let it happen.” I don’t mean to criticize any of the mods mentioned or any other person, so it’s not about the people, but I have to say this compensation proposal reminds me of the “Buy the guy a Lambo” vote on the first days of our Snapshot page, only a little realer now.
For example: Pay the compensations in the form of leveraged wMEMO positions on Abra? Off the top of my head here, but surely sounds better to me in a lot ways, although surely it must be improved. At least the accountability of the paid personnel will not be reduced to money’s level of honor…
I want to state again that I’m 100% behind, totally supporting the paying the mods idea, and am grateful that there are people willing to put their work into this, actively working to put themselves in front of everybody with their honest actions.
YET
- None of that above is the solution.
- The problem here is existential.
- It should be the governing central body of Wonderland
that decides on the HR and the company budget, along with other company actions. - We used to have this central institution when we invested in some people with ideas. That meant Wonderland had a plan, a direction, a use. A real one.
- Wonderland has no use or plan right now. Only plunging in value.
- Too many people here for everyone to meet around, and micromanage collectively in issues such as this one imo.
2 Likes
Decentralised. Private arrangements - industry standard or better. Lawyer/legal check. Snapshot vote on these things as necessary.
You GO Bamchicka. It is clear the people stepping up take responsibility for roles that we now require. We would love to hear your proposal now in your individual roles from each of you in a professional structure format. EACH team member is a single seperate vote because each role is a single seperate role. You propose details. We clarify and converse on anything that needs clearing. Contract agreements can be drafted and cleared etc etc Who better than you folks who are invested in navigating Wonderland to a better place. Rome was not made overnight.
2 Likes
Mate I didn’t hired you why should you get paid and for what soon Time is going to thank under 100 USD.
What you guys do is useless anyway
You suppose to help people who got hacked what support you provide me ?
None so here’s my answer
Suspending you for two weeks cause at this point you are just spamming FUD on the forum even when we try to help.
To be honest, it is completly fair to pay who contribute to mantain our DAO.
Mods are really important, but all we are talking about is a 8-person-team to moderate our Discord.
8 person is a lot!
And I’m saying this because I think we actually need to fill more job positions then just mods:
- Mods (I think that a team of 4 + 1 senior is more than reasonable)
- Editors (to improve and spread the word about our discussions here at the forum and important news)
- Designers (to turn our editors work more consumable for average users through images)
- Videomakers (same of designer work, but focused on videos)
- Social media (hey, crypto world is on twitter. And we’re here stuck at our discord and forum, acting like hostages to some youtubers constantly trashing on us)
And lastly, but definetly not less important: I think all of this need to be decided AFTER we have a treasury manager, because that’s the person who will make the money run and grow.
It’s like we’re building a factory but hiring our marketing team years before the first product got out.
For a palliative till we decide who will be our TM, I think we could have payments to help who contribute (maybe not just mods? If by any chance we have others helping in other positions)
And not mantain this costs as a salary of a regular full-time job, because let’s be honests: today it is not a regular full-time job. You guys probably have other incomes and activities.
We need to gave investors more confidence so we can get back on track, and paying a big team of moderators at times like these is not the solution.
summarizing my opinion
- It is a fair proposal, but we need to think in building a full department of communication, not just a big team of moderators;
- We need to put this discussion on a standby until we get a new TM (and we need this person ASAP!);
- As palliative, we can discuss pay our contributors in a non-sallary model, because it is not a full time job today (a mod here easely can be a mod in others discord servers or something like that);
- Our focus should be giving investors confidence to buy and hold wMemo (and this proposal doesn’t really help because of the timing).
Love you all, let’s make wonderland big
I think we all agree with what you are saying in principle, but two things.
-
No need to wait for a TM. Main reason is that Dani will be putting the treasury to work, but also because if it takes 5 months to get someone on board, we wasted 5 months of not getting organized and waiting around.
-
This one is mainly on us for not explaining properly I guess, but we are not asking to be paid to keep doing only the moderation job we are doing at the moment. Essentially, we have been asking for things to be done for months, but the people that currently have the power to do so either don’t have the time or haven’t been doing it.
We are proposing to be hired to implement change and help organize things in an official capacity given that we currently do not have the authority to do so.
Increased communication (internal and external), increased structure, increased community engagement, etc.
Dani wanted a proposal for us to get paid, we thought it was only fair that if we get paid, we should do more than just moderation in the Discord.
Also, this doesn’t have to, and probably should not be a permanent solution. As we grow and get more organized, we should get people in a more official capacity. We have very talented frogs in the community.
Currently, we can barely get anything past the RFC stage. A lot of time, because the proposal/ideas are not detailed enough to implement. However, we believe we need to start somewhere and using some of the most active and long standing member of this community as a first step seemed to make sense.
In short, more authority, more accountabilty, more money.
2 Likes
-
Yes, It make a lot of sense! Agreed.
-
Undertood, but on the proposal you guys seems to want payment just for the current job of moderating. If it would be included more jobs on your roles, it should be listed to community evaluate the proposal.
And it is important to know: if the job goes beyond moderation, then you guys should bring more informations about your expertises and what would be your responsabilities.
Not so fair to get a sallary to continue as a mod but with authority to post on #announcements on discord.
I think the proposal need revisions on this details. But still is fair (and important) to hire a team.
1 Like